Midlife Dating Podcast

Episode 15 - The Counteroffer

• Paul Nelson • Episode 15

Share episode

Approximately Half of those you run across on the dating apps seek "Electronic Vanity Validation." This glossary describes those who use online dating apps and legacy websites who validate themselves simply by who they match up with.

Paul reviews the book, The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. In it, we learn that good men are simple beings, hard to find but easy to keep. Additionally, why women regret marrying "Nice Guys," and how real men think about their committed relationship.

Then, in the Potpourri Segment, Paul explains how the Counteroffer is one of the most significant indicators if someone is interested in pursuing a dating relationship with you.

We're retaking dating questions now that the podcast production is more dialed in. If you've got one you'd like Paul to answer on the podcast, please submit it to the email address below. We'll keep your identity confidential. 

Questions and Contributions: questions@50datesat50.com

50 Dates at 50 Website: https://50datesat50.com/

Episode 15 - The Counter Offer – Final

The transcription below is provided for your convenience. Please excuse any mistakes that the automated service made in translation.

Introduction

Paul Nelson: Episode 15. The Counter Offer. 

As you become more immersed in online dating. You're going to notice a particular group of people. That seem to be online just for attention. 

 Our dating and relationship glossary term for this episode, "Electronic Vanity Validation," addresses this group of individuals. 

I'll be reviewing a book that is controversial in my experience. 

 In that when discussing it with most folks, it quickly divides them into two camps. Those that firmly agree with it. And those that don't. That book is "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Regardless of which camp you're in, there is no doubt that Dr. Laura understands men. Of course, that pertains to Real Men, or Good Guys, as we call them here at the Midlife Dating Podcast. Dr. Laura is right on point when she explains what real men think about in regards to sex in a committed relationship. 

Guys, ever ask a gal out on a date, and she rejects your offer because she's busy? This has happened to all of us at some point. But you think to yourself? Are they really busy, or are they honestly not interested? 

Gals. Have you ever declined a date offer with a man that you were interested in meeting because you already had other plans? And he never called you back to ask you out again? 

In our Potpourri segment, I'll be covering the counteroffer, which applies in both these situations. And why it's a critical communication point and a key tell if someone is honestly interested in meeting you in a dating situation. 

By the end of this episode, you'll know how to effectively understand how to use or not use the Counter Offer. 

 You'll be better able to identify those using online dating apps and websites for personal validation and entertainment. 

Also, how real men think and feel when it comes to being in a committed relationship. 

If you like what you hear. Please take a moment and click on the subscribe or follow button. I don't want you missing out on making your date nights more memorable. So now, 50 daters, let's start turning those dating busts into dating bests. 

Glossary Term: Electronic Vanity Validation

Paul Nelson: Electronic Vanity Validation. I heard this term initially on one of Damona Hoffman's Dates and Mates podcasts. So I'm giving full credit to her for this one. This is the act of seeking personal validation through social media and dating apps in the form of "Likes" and "Right Swipes" instead of actually meeting in person or face to face. 

50 Daters, it's extremely important to remember that when you get on dating apps, half, at a minimum, half the people that you run into that you match up with are there for Electronic Vanity Validation. It's all about collecting Likes and Right Swipes.

This is why we use the 3-1-1 rule to quickly eliminate those that are strictly there for Electronic Vanity Validation. 

Book Review: The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands

Paul Nelson: The book, The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, written by Dr. Laura Schlesinger, is our review for this episode. To many, she's a controversial figure. However, she has a lot of great common sense relationship and dating advice. She no doubt understands men very well, as you'll soon see. I was personally a fan of hers in the early two thousands. I used to listen to her on KFI, the Los Angeles affiliate here in California 

this book is based on two primary principles. First, men are simple. And second, a good man is hard to find but not hard to keep. Taken from years of experience from callers to her radio program. Dr. Laura puts forth basic guidelines to keeping a good man in a marriage or relationship; though the focus is on keeping a marriage awesome. Much also applies to other relationship levels.

 It is important to note that the philosophy in this book is rooted in the fact that the man in said relationship or marriage is a Good Guy with a grounded set of values.

It won't fix or tame a Bad Boy. It might turn a Nice Guy into a Good Guy. However, provided the Nice Guy is willing to learn and grow. It also establishes that when it comes to relationships in the home, women rule. The book shows how women can rule lovingly and wisely. Specific ways of approaching their interactions with men yield magical and positive changes.

Dr. Laura states women need to understand that men in their relationship are very dependent upon them for acceptance, approval, and affection.

Personally speaking, one thing that struck me about this book is the parallel to men turning into or becoming Nice Guys in a marriage or relationship. The women end up getting bored with the men because they change into the Nice Guy and are not the same guy doing the things that attracted them in the first place.

The same happens to a guy in terms of how they see their woman when she stops being a girl and no longer emphasizes being the very feminine figure he was once so attracted to.

The book highlights situations that women find themselves in during a typical marriage that can chase their man away. 

So what's the Midlife Dating Podcast take on this? This book captures everything women need to know about good men. Emphasis on good men.

It will not apply to narcissistic men. It also takes a very conservative approach for women on how to deal with men. It does not attempt to revise thousands of years of evolution. Further, it recognizes traditional gender roles and why each role is attractive to the other. 

Personally speaking. I have not read any book that comes even close to how men naturally think and approach things. If there is a woman that truly understands men, it's Dr. Laura.

Now the Midlife Dating Podcast view on why you need to read it. 

Men need to read this in order to understand the type of woman they are looking. If you're a good guy, you'll attract a good woman. How good men and good women treat each other in a successful relationship is spelled out very plainly in this book.

Women need to read this book to understand how a good man thinks and what makes him the masculine man whom women want. Feminists will probably not agree with many of the things in this book due to its traditional point of view, but it will help them understand men. Be aware if you get the audible version of this book, you'll be missing a large part of the example situations from callers that add helpful context.

 Once you're aware of the points Dr. Laura makes, you'll begin to recognize some of them from a previous marriage or relationship that you've had. You'll also pick up on them in the relationships of others that you know. The book has several examples of each of these as I go through the chapters here. 

White Rabbit Syndrome is one of the first chapters. And this has to do with a woman not recognizing when their husbands are eager to have an intimate connection with them because they are too busy. 

Hurried Woman Syndrome is a term used by some in the medical industry. Symptoms include low sex drive, moodiness, fatigue, and sometimes weight gain. All due to the stress caused by attempting to do too much and not being able to keep up with all of it. And resenting anyone who has expectations. Like the children or the husband, and the wife ends up feeling hostile and depressed as a result. 

Wife Mode Versus Mother Mode. This is when a wife turns into a mother in the presence of the kids, and she ends up being the husband's second mother and unconsciously abandoning, going back to being her husband's wife, woman, lover, or companion, during the private moments between them. 

There's also a section on Frump Syndrome. This is what many women discovered they fell into who called her program, complaining they were no longer happy in their marriage. It could be identified by wearing flannel pajamas, socks, sweatpants, or oversized t-shirts to bed instead of something girly. 

Basically not adorning or presenting themselves the way they did when they were trying to catch their now husband. It's all about balance. 

The World is Only On My Shoulders Syndrome. This is when a wife has regularly been dealing with the kids all day, and the husband is away at work. And when he comes home at the end of the day, she's tired because the kids have needed her all day, and she begins to resent the husband. Because he begins to appear as someone else that needs something from her. 

 Nagging. Dictionary.com defines it as persistently reoccurring or unrelenting fault finding and complaining. Dr. Laura's chapter on nagging does a high-quality job of explaining how women can get their husbands to do the things they would like them to do in a relationship. In a positive and complimentary manner that strengthens their bond as a couple without having to nag. 

Men have feelings. Really? You're kidding! This chapter deals with how men feel in their marriage. What makes them unhappy, and what can hurt their feelings. It demonstrates with examples of what leads men to winding up in affairs. In many cases, it boils down to getting their feelings trampled on somewhere in the relationship, and surprisingly it generally isn't about their feelings regarding sex in the relationship. 

 A Man Should Be Respected In His Own Home. This chapter goes into detail with great examples of how respect for your husband is demonstrated in a relationship. It's all about the little things. 

 One of my favorite chapters is, Why Women Regret Marrying Nice Guys. The basic concept behind this as it, it puts the woman in control and eventually makes the men look weak. 

Chapter six on sex. I remember hearing a lot of feedback on Dr. Laura's show around this chapter. It emphasizes the importance of the intimate relationship. This is where a man feels closest to his woman. This does not apply again to bad boys, jerks, or narcissistic men. If a woman wants to know how real men feel about sex and intimacy, chapter six spells it all out. No stone is left unturned.

And one of the last chapters. As the chapter on guy time. This explains the fundamentals of why giving men time to do their things is so important to the marriage and relationship. 

Now, I've got some quotes from the book that I want to present here, and I have an opinion on some of these quotes. And so what I'm going to do is my opinion will actually sound like a phone call right after the quote. So you can kind of tell the difference real quick between what Dr. Laura is saying and what my opinion is.

So here we are written for marriages. These are typical of how good men, good guys, and 50-dater men think. 

 Quote, number one, "When a wife behaves sexily, handles herself alluring, and by the way, she looks at her husband, touches him and talks to him, conveys her interest, love, respect, attraction; frankly, he'll go anywhere and do anything and slay all dragons for his family."

 This is 1000% correct. 

Quote. "Obviously, one reason the fangs may come out quickly is that many women who've cycled through many intimate relationships, shack-ups, and marriages have developed a well of pain and disappointment. They don't want to be hurt again. They become hypersensitive and take quick leaps into misassumptions." 

These misassumptions reveal themselves very, very quickly in online dating.

Quote, "Your basic male is a decent creature with simple desires. To be his wife's hero, to be his wife's dream lover, to be the protector and provider for his family, to be respected, admired, and appreciated. Men live to make their women happy." 

This is 1000% correct.

Quote, "What attracts men to their women is their femininity, and femininity isn't about appearance. It's also about behaviors." 

1000% correct. 

Quote, "Women expect their men to be understanding about them not being in the mood for sex. But women need to reciprocate that understanding and not be critical when their husbands desire them. Likewise, they need to get it into their heads that their husbands are not just wanting some. They're desiring closeness with acceptance by them."

This is so simple and so powerfully true. Again, this applies strictly to good men. Not nice guys, jerks or narcissists. 

Potpourri Segment: The Counteroffer

Paul Nelson: The Counteroffer. I want to give full credit to a dating coach, mentor of mine, Doc Love, who is no longer with us, for helping men understand what the counteroffer is and how it applies to a dating relationship. 

Doc also pointed out on many occasions that the counteroffer applies in other situations in life. Once you're aware of the counteroffer, you'll begin to recognize it in many situations, and you'll know immediately if someone is interested in pursuing friendships and business deals and if they're serious about following through. 

In many aspects, the lack of a counteroffer is a simple form of someone saying to you. Don't call us. We'll call you. 

I've saved countless hours of time by not pursuing the uninterested. Using what I've learned regarding the counteroffer. 

From the gal side, the counteroffer is generally a prerogative or choice that a woman uses to signal that she has a strong interest in meeting up with a man. Or is not interested in meeting. In a dating relationship. 

The counteroffer can take place any time between the moment. A man asks her out for a date. And she has to decline due to other plans or if she has to cancel at some later point before the date. 

In a counteroffer response. She lets the man know what other days or times she is available to meet him. This indicates the decline or cancellation that she gave him Was genuine. And demonstrates she is generally interested in meeting with him. 

Lack of a counteroffer or not giving a guy asking her out other days she's available almost always means she's not interested. 

 Or it could also mean a current dating relationship is on the way out. 

A man can also use the counteroffer, but in most cases here at the Middle Life Dating Podcast, the man is asking the woman out, so this can go both ways because there are many times further into a dating relationship where the woman wants to take the guy out on a date to show how much she appreciates him. And he may have to decline for some reason. 

Once you learn to recognize the lack of a counteroffer, you'll immediately know not to waste your time any further in the interaction. 

Let me give you an example. So a guy asks a gal out, and the gal says due to a coworker's absence at work, I have to stay later, and I'm unable to meet you. Sorry about the last-minute notice. 

That statement, as it is, signals a broken date or lack of interest. Doc love referred to cancellations as broken dates. 

However, if a counteroffer is added to that same message, an example would be this. 

Due to a coworker's absence at work. I have to stay later, and I'm unable to meet you. Sorry about the last-minute notice. 

I am available to meet though on Wednesday or Thursday evening. 

Now that last little statement, I'm available to meet Wednesday or Thursday evening indicates that she is interested. 

Any cancellation a man receives without a counteroffer in most cases, signals she is not interested in going out with him. Or she lacks social awareness, which is possible, but not likely. 

Now, unfortunately, most Boomer and some Gen X men will follow through on the three-strike rule and attempt to ask the woman out a couple more times. 

But 50 dater men know better. They politely move on. That's how online dating primarily works. You get one strike. I know I didn't make this up, but it is how it is. 

Now for the gals. 

If you don't respond with a counteroffer and are interested in seeing him. You probably won't hear from him again. 

Especially if he has a good level of dating and relationship awareness. 

Now I want to speak to the guys again here for a moment. Guys, what do you do if there is no counteroffer? And you're asking a gal out. It's simple. Politely move on and leave it in their hands. 

And when you move on, you always handle this with class. If you get turned down, I recommend saying something like, No problem, when your schedule opens up, let me know when you're available, and I'll set something up for us. 

Then drop it. And leave it at that. Do not expect to call back. However, occasionally, when you demonstrate class and you leave the door open, you may be pleasantly surprised with an occasional callback, but don't expect it. 

As I mentioned earlier, you can try asking her out again. However, if you're playing by the three-strike rule, you're just wasting your time. 

Don't believe me? Guys, I'd highly recommend all guys try and work through the old three-strike rule to ask her out three times as an exercise. 

When you continue to try and ask out a few more times, don't expect her to pick up the phone or return your calls or your texts. 

This way, you can witness for yourself why it's best to just drop things and move on.

I applied the three-strike rule for quite a while. Before reality finally sunk in that it was a waste of time. One thing to be aware of is before online dating, that would be in the 1990s and earlier, you generally met most people through social circles. And in those circles, there was pressure for both the guys and the gals to follow through. 

Therefore the three-strike rule could be applied with a higher potential return. But that's just not the way it is today. 

Now for the gals. If you're generally interested, you need to demonstrate that with a counteroffer if you can't make the date. 

Now, if you're a rules girl. Trying to show interest by not showing interest does not work in online dating. What is a Rules Girl? It's a gal who uses the methods described in the book, All the Rules. Written back in the nineties on how to attract a good man. 

But several teachings in this book will not apply or work in an online dating situation—for example, this book advocates not returning men's calls at first or only returning one out of every three or four calls. 

However, you can't get away with that in an online dating situation. In the nineties and earlier, you could get away with that. When it comes to online dating, you have to respond because of all the other available choices who will respond to him. 

But with online dating, playing hard to get by, not responding or answering will shut everything down. 

I'll have a review on, All the Rules in a future upcoming episode. 

Lesson Learned

Paul Nelson: What did we learn today? 50 Daters. 

How to better recognize those who use online dating apps and websites for personal validation and entertainment. Learning this minimizes our valuable time interacting with them because most of them don't really have any type of dating plan. And if there's no dating plan, that just means endless chit-chat because they're bored. 

For the gals, Dr. Laura's book gives women an honest look into the way a quality man thinks about relationships, which is why it's essential to find a good guy and build on that. 

For the guys, this book validates how simple we really are. And what our mindset is in approaching a committed relationship. 

The counteroffer. Or lack of it is one of the biggest tells. And how interested someone is in testing the waters for a potential dating relationship with you. 

Conclusion

Paul Nelson: Here at the middle life dating podcast. We're all about providing as much value as possible for our listeners. If you've got some dating questions. I'd be happy to answer them on the podcast. The email address will be in the show notes for that. 

Let me close this out with some dating humor. A quote from Albert Einstein and he said, You can't blame gravity for falling in love. 

As always, these episodes, they are a blast to create. And I look forward to being with you in the next one, To take your dating experience from a bust to a best, and that's a really good place to be.